Patenting For Inventors & Startups

0:01 hi everybody welcome back we’re here before you tank you know we’re here to
0:06 help you strive in an industry that we think sucks and again you guys we clarified that
0:12 in a positive way we’re saying that because it’s a two percent success rate so we are really excited today because
0:19 we have a guest you guys I want to introduce you to Katie
0:24 Katie has founded the inventors club for women she’s actually been doing gosh it
0:30 better work for what 10 years yep but this is the coolest part you guys she sleeps with a patent attorney
0:37 you guys we brought her on because thank you to everybody who’s been starting to ask questions we are so
0:42 grateful and so we found Constance who’s out there in the world who has a
0:48 very very cool product and she wrote in about patents and so we wanted to bring
0:54 you a real expert but Keith you have some background yeah actually I’m super
1:00 excited about today’s conversation I have to tell you because my background really comes from more of the corporate setting right big companies lots of
1:07 money lots of funding for patents it’s a whole part of their strategy but that’s completely different than what we’re
1:13 talking about today so I’d love to hear as you get into it things about hey how is it different for startups inventors
1:19 and what are things that they should be thinking about versus these big corporations with seemingly unlimited funds yes really unlimited funds Keith
1:27 you have a very background there is no doubt about it hey Pawan I think you’re going to be
1:33 such a great asset for us today too because we know we’ve talked about this before but it is so important that what you
1:41 product develop matches what you’ve had so it please we we are going to give you
1:46 guys as much information as we possibly possibly can so I’m gonna start just jump into it with the questions that we
1:52 were asked the first question that she asked is when do I get a patent great question so
1:59 anytime you decide to pursue an idea when I say that I mean you come up with an idea you just can’t shake it
2:05 you want to create a product really you want to start to think about filing a provisional patent and with a
2:12 provisional patent that gives you one year to go ahead and Shop it around
2:18 talk to your engineer get a prototype made until you really need to move
2:24 forward then with a Utility Patent but you also want to make sure that it’s written in such a way that any other
2:30 companies that come through within that year because there are a lot of bigger fish in the sea
2:35 that may have something similar if you’re if your provisional patent is written well enough similar to utility
2:41 you’re going to be covered okay so you guys I want to explain that just a little bit a little more simplified
2:47 because if you’re really new at this and I’m kind of a Layman but I’ve been doing it
2:52 for 30 years so we’re going to let Katie clarify if I’m wrong but I just want to break it down because there when she
2:59 talks about a provisional patent you guys there’s really three types of patterns there’s what we call a design patent a Utility Patent and a
3:05 provisional pattern correct a design patent just so that you understand I don’t like it it’s really hard to sell
3:12 in the market but it’s really common in your cell phone so a lot of companies like apple wanted to make it Chic and
3:19 sexy so they did it on design but it’s really got very little value correct I
3:24 think you said to me the same thing here yes and it’s also the least expensive to get right and I think I’ve had
3:30 alternators like at it for 500 bucks or 1500 bucks so I say that because there is a
3:36 place sometimes where design patent works but what we’re talking about in life is a Utility Patent you guys the
3:41 Utility Patent tell them give the definition of what that is right so a Utility Patent really is
3:48 something that’s going to cover all aspects of the invention the product could potentially be invented six seven
3:55 different ways and if you have a patent attorney who’s been doing this for a long time they’re basically going to
4:01 co-invent the product with you so that when you do go to license it if that’s something you decide you want to do the
4:07 company will say okay now I can recreate this product XYZ different types of ways
4:15 and you know that the patent’s going to cover it now this is much more costly it is around ten thousand dollars to do
4:21 a Utility Patent to file and to get it going that also includes the USPTO fees so going at it with a
4:30 provisional right out the door is really the most cost effective that is our Favorite it is the most favorite
4:37 and it’s the most cost effective for independent inventors so that way when you are going to secure funding within
4:44 that one year you guys when she’s saying that about
4:50 one year a provisional patent is where you file your ideal
4:56 it kind of describes everything you have it and it marks you in place but you don’t put the claims the claims are
5:01 the piece that turns it into a utility path correct and so what she’s saying is is that it’s two thousand dollars for a
5:08 provisional but it gives you one whole year to to do product development to get
5:13 it all in place to get marketing research to do whatever you do then you pay the balance and you file the utility
5:19 and the reason we all love that is because we know how risky our business is do you presents that’s right but so
5:25 because of that she’s saying it’s a brilliant way to go but you guys you want to partner with a really great
5:31 attorney because you want him to set you up for Success when you get the utility piece in place right and really
5:38 co-invent it right yeah and I see a lot of I’d say a lot of inventors and startups that they get very concerned
5:45 about disclosure right hey I don’t want to disclose this you know I don’t want to tell anybody because the time frames and first of all these things and a lot
5:52 of changes I think people get a little bit confused around that so maybe how does the provisional help with some of
5:57 that so that’s a great question too if it is written in such a way that is similar to Utility Patent again it will
6:06 and if you have a patent attorney and I’ll see it as a patent agent however you really want to look at their background and
6:12 make sure that they can handle your technology and
6:21 well so the provisional will allow you time to go ahead you guys yeah yeah you
6:27 guys it’s a lot of information so we totally get it so go ahead that’s why we like the
6:33 provisional so what what Katie is saying is that and you guys I have probably told a lot of my clients in the past
6:40 that if money is an issue you guys can file for yourself and so you guys It’s a 65 dollar filing fee to file a provisional and
6:48 to be honest you really only have to have certain information in place because it’s a placeholder it’s not
6:53 really being evaluated so until the end when you add your claims but as Katie
6:59 has said several times really really well is that the value of your patent is what we sell it’s what gives you all of
7:06 your value and if you’re co-inventing with your patent attorney who’s getting really really great coverage he can tell
7:12 you in advance like look this is going to be fabulous and when he’s filing for the first time he’s not just going this
7:17 is my name this is my drawing thank you for holding the spot for me he’s gonna make it so that like she said which I
7:23 didn’t know this before if somebody came along the way mine might be too crappy to really get something absolutely now I
7:30 have a surprise her husband made this really awesome downloadable book on how
7:35 to do your own oh wow and he you guys when I say he’s brilliant he’s really brilliant so tell us like I think it’s
7:42 another download too yeah I do and I just want to back up real very quickly and just
7:49 stress that patent attorneys in general have to have a science background so my husband
7:54 in particular has a physics background he handles electrical engineering stuff but he also handles consumer products
8:00 and a lot of those things and then there are people that handle chemical sides of things so looking at
8:06 the background according to your product is is also very helpful so yeah but as far as the downloads so
8:14 we have a free download on our website inventors club for women that talks about Angel Investors and the importance
8:21 of having intellectual property if you’re trying to secure funding so please go on to inventors club for women
8:27 and click on our free download and I’d be happy to share that with you that is
8:33 so good yeah that’s so great I mean especially thinking about that right you’ve got the background as patent attorney now you’ve got this download from that perspective I love those
8:40 things we do that all the time for people that come and they’re like hey I just need to get started I’m not ready
8:46 yet to start working with somebody but you want them to get started off on the right foot right you don’t want them to get all the way down this path or start
8:52 working you know in the wrong direction of some kind so that’s great really no and she’s done such a great job
8:58 with that inventors Club Pawan the for you when you look at a product right
9:05 you’re going to look at the product because you’ve asked me for the patent before yeah so you look at the product and you look at the patent and then you
9:11 design correct yes because I’ve seen a lot of times that people create the better I think we touched touch base
9:16 doesn’t previously previous episodes but they create patent with some information but they mind is different so when they
9:23 go to product development I want to do that and I think that’s why I asked them okay if you have something released
9:29 document show that to me because I want to make sure that what I’m designing it meets with that particular specification
9:36 I can design more but then you have to work with your attorney to add those information over there and that takes me
9:42 to another really interesting question actually that’s for me and I’m keep seeing that many times people find
9:47 patent and then they when I’m working with them if I’m working with some supplier they want them to sign ndas so
9:53 if it’s yeah so my question is what’s the difference like do they need to sign ndas even if it’s public documents or
10:01 how that works so really great question they do not need to sign an NDA if they have something on
10:07 file the USPTO the United States patent trademark office they do not need to sign an NDA and there’s a
10:13 whole other conversation around ndas that most inventors and innovators
10:19 and even service providers are unaware of unless the NDA has been written specifically from a legal
10:26 perspective unless the NDA has been written specifically to that innovator
10:31 and that product it’s really worthless in a court of law so I’ve had other service providers say
10:37 oh I’m going to give an NDA to this innovator and it’s worthless it means absolutely nothing specifically because
10:44 Pawanif you’re going to give and I’m not saying that you’ve ever given an NDA to anyone but just as an example if if you
10:51 ever gave someone an NDA it would be pointless because the whole reason that they’re signing the NDA is to keep you
10:57 from reproducing their product so absolutely all of that is right so I’ve
11:03 heard countless professionals and I’ve had countless professionals say
11:12 oh you can just print out an NDA online and it’s you know in in some
11:18 respects that might be okay especially if you really trust the person and you don’t want to have to have something recreated like recreating the wheel
11:24 however typically it’s around 500 to have an attorney draft an NDA specific
11:31 to that innovator let me ask this question that’s how I understand so what you’re saying is if
11:38 we file a provisional which is I in my opinion was the reason we got protection right file the provisional it gives us
11:44 time to get with you get it made exactly the way I want before I follow the
11:49 utility but it gives me all the confidence that I can share my story correct then I don’t need an NDA you
11:56 really don’t specifically however there are certain cases and if Todd were here with it you would say there are certain
12:01 cases during that one year of time of the provisional that certain innovators may want to file an
12:08 NDA just as a sort of a backup and I understand that that’s fine because it has not
12:14 you know reached fruition right the patent hasn’t been accepted we haven’t gotten our filing date but that that
12:21 NDA is going to be that product specifically right there right okay right yeah 12:27 that’s good to know that that’s good to know and we need to bring Todd on yeah a lot of people are really unaware of that I mean
12:33 you know it’s unbelievable I thought it was professionals right so and we do
12:38 have an NDA that you know people can fill in but we have a disclaimer on the NDA that says
12:45 this may not hold up in a court of law it’s almost like a handshake right handshake type NDA common and I think
12:52 that’s something that really needs to be said but once the once the patent has been accepted and approved you
13:01 absolutely don’t need an NDA because it’s public knowledge that’s the thing that I keep saying it’s ridiculous okay
13:06 okay so that’s good to know yeah because I keep hearing that thing keep coming back from the inventor they said okay
13:12 this paid on release this is my document number but let’s before I work with them right I want you to find NDA and I’m
13:18 like you just showed me it’s there I can go to the Google and I can find you exactly which makes no sense right right
13:25 here that’s that’s a really good information that’s really good you guys that is really a great I’ve always
13:30 wondered that all right so this other question that Constance asked how long do they last
13:38 how a provisional patent we know last year that converts to each other utility lasts around 20 years so yeah that’s
13:45 what there are fees that come up so just to add on to that if you decide to
13:51 switch patent attorneys or if you have a patent that you know you’re pursuing and
13:57 you’re pursuing a company or a business with you really need to make sure that that patent attorney stays on top of the
14:03 fees that are going to come up every x amount of years I don’t know the number offhand but
14:09 you need to make sure or your patent will go to the Wayside and then you’ll
14:15 have a serious problem and in some cases you might have to start from scratch so really good attorneys
14:22 are going to make sure that they stay on top of those fees but you just need to
14:27 make sure that that is the case yeah that goes back to a theme we’ve been talking about right and kind of qualifying the people you’re working
14:33 with and I’m not asking them good questions right because even from the starting out point I was like okay we’ve
14:38 got a provisional patent having just the confidence to be able to say do I need an NDA to disclose XYZ to
14:45 my product developer right and then you know knowing that that attorney has got your back when it comes to fees because
14:50 like who’s going to be thinking about maintenance and we don’t have fees we’re lucky we’ve got the filing yeah exactly
14:56 right right there is a lot that goes into it for sure well and and on that
15:01 because we did we we in other podcasts we were talking about really simple ways that you could ask questions to like
15:07 your product developer that would identify for you if they really get it so I would think for me for a patent
15:13 attorney and work I don’t want to go down this path too far you guys but for me it’s about your claims and so you
15:19 guys when when your patent that’s what you’re paying for is that’s what you’re saying that Science Background the guy
15:24 who’s co-inventing because what you claim your product can do is what makes it so valuable and what makes it
15:31 what why somebody wants it so you guys I learned it as a specific and a broad claim so a specific
15:38 claim is it’s whatever this is 4 inches by two inches and whatever I you guys you know I tell about my
15:44 claim to fame my pantyhose pack deal where I got 4.1 million down and 31 million dollar deal and 7-Eleven wanted
15:52 to carry the product and so they reached out to my attorney now this is back where you couldn’t just pull everything up and they asked if they could
15:59 scrutinize the patent which later I realized they just want to go around us
16:05 sure give us 25 Grand you get three weeks and you can take a look at it and sure enough he said Luanna the reason why
16:12 it was so good is because the broad claim said this if you take a cigarette pack and you
16:17 shove pantyhose in with a pencil you’re infringing if you compress hose in any
16:23 way you’re infringing I mean you guys that was huge it was incredible our drivetrain was if you use an ignition
16:30 to turn it on then you’ve been friends I mean this is awesome claims so I know
16:35 that that’s probably the claim part you guys is probably something we really want to talk to Todd about yes but don’t
16:41 you agree that if we were going to ask a question to get a really good qualifiable question it is please
16:47 explain to me claims absolutely because there should be both types and there should be as many as possible and I’ve
16:54 had plenty of attorneys my inventors come back and say my attorney didn’t know what I was talking about when I
17:00 asked about claims and I’m like oh my God that’s like buying a house without a roof right and it’s interesting because
17:05 you don’t even need to wait until you’re doing Utility Patent to have that conversation with them right because exactly know that that’s where you’re
17:12 going even if you’re filing a provisional right and and you know what I think what you’re saying is so great
17:17 because what I try to get my clients to do is I want you to get a provisional but like we talked about we like to do
17:23 three things together we prototype we do a provisional and we market research and
17:28 so what I really like to have you do is before we file a provisional I want you to know from your attorney what he feels
17:35 confident his claims are going to be because you guys may think you have something but your attorney’s gonna go are you
17:42 freaking kidding me this has like been done a thousand times there’s no way to protect it right and that’s why it’s so
17:47 important to have someone that that is knowledgeable that’s been doing it for a long time
17:52 Todd is a unique case because he’s a former patent examiner at the USPTO which is why I think that’s easy for him
17:58 to explain and all of these things but it’s very similar to you know
18:04 just write the patent myself yes but it’s also very specific to the Science Background it’s sort of like
18:10 having a doctor do your surgery as opposed to a non-doctoral surgery you know I know that’s an extreme example but
18:17 they really do need to know how to write the claims specifically how to reinvent that product 10 times over in ways that
18:24 you never thought of that they’re going to figure it out all right you guys I mean that’s so funny because in my world right it’s
18:30 Engineers right oh you’re an engineer if you’re like well yes but there’s software
18:36 exactly right so I don’t know how close we are getting on time but there’s
18:41 something that I definitely wanted to hit on and I get this all the time search
18:47 there is a way that we search you guys and we’ve talked about it you can go on Google patent searches or you can go on
18:53 the U.S patent office and search but then there’s a professional search and you pay your attorney to search and the
18:59 reason why you guys that search is so important it’s for two things one is when you
19:06 search the last thing you want to do is spend all this money and time patent a product make it and then find out you
19:12 literally made somebody else’s already existing patented product so you’re infringing and you guys I’ve had that
19:18 I’ve had somebody give come to me with their patent their product I sent it out to a buyer and they send back an exact
19:23 product it’s on the mark and it looks just like it so that’s one right we want
19:28 to we want to search for that and then the other you want to search to see if you really have something and I was taught that you download this
19:35 prior art so whatever you find they call it prior art so if you’re doing I did a shoelace idea I had this really cute
19:41 idea for my daughter which found out 75 other people had the same cute idea but nobody changed the market but so when
19:48 I’m looking up I pull things that are really close to mine so that you’re when you do talk to an attorney
19:54 and he usually does vice versa but you guys are discussing okay this is what we’ve already done but you could still
20:00 do it and maybe you use a technology that makes it better or easier correct and then you still have something and I
20:06 think that that’s yeah I think that’s really valid and you know we typically if people are
20:12 working on a budget everybody’s boots dropping right so we don’t necessarily recommend a paid search if you’re an
20:19 independent inventor it’s about fifteen hundred dollars for to do the search and then write the opinion and that’s a lot
20:24 that is a lot you can do it it’s a lot so exactly so that’s really and if you
20:29 if you had an experienced patent attorney you don’t necessarily need it if you are an independent inventor and
20:36 if you’ve done all the things that you just said correct typically people do pay for
20:44 searches if it’s a company if it’s a big company that’s going up against another company to do the search but yes if it’s
20:50 an independent innovator we don’t necessarily recommend yeah there’s definitely even a step in corporate
20:55 where the inventor was had to go and do a search and we had to check with and we should do we should make a quick checklist of here’s some things to
21:01 search and here’s absolutely search for folks who don’t want to pay for professional and just need to get some knowledge because yeah I think we should
21:07 do that you can find a lot you can find a lot if you search Google if you search USPTO if you search for
21:13 products and then check all the terms that
21:19 someone else might use to describe your product right because how many times have you seen a product come through it’s like oh and they do that yeah and
21:26 then you realize you find it later because you thought of another way to say different yeah right and you
21:32 know what let’s do that let’s get you guys so that we can give you we’ll put it on inventors club for women and we’ll
21:38 come up with something and so people can go there you can download the best way to search that
21:43 I have one other topic and I think it will answer some of the questions that she asked and it’s two-part one is
21:51 you guys she asked if you can talk to friends and family about your idea now years ago it used to be if you spoke
21:58 about your product somebody else could take and run with it first to file correct and now I’m sorry it wasn’t first to file
22:06 it was first to Convent invent and so I used to hear all these crazy stories where you’re going to mail it to yourself and you’re going to do all that
22:11 and so if you were sitting down at Thanksgiving dinner and somebody actually got up and took your idea if
22:16 you haven’t filed and you you would have to really fight that you were the first one to invent it now it’s just
22:21 playing first to file right correct so it’s like we could all sit in a room and have a great idea I could go ahead and call my attorney really fast and say
22:28 Todd don’t speak to your wife because you’re gonna do it for me and then we’re going to go ahead and file so yes you
22:34 can talk to your family if you want and you’re going to because you’re going to buy them away from them
22:43 so yes you can but like don’t share it with everybody obviously we still want to protect your technology so that was
22:49 the first thing that I wanted to hit on and then what was her other question here
22:54 we talked she wanted to know about finding a good attorney and we just gave you some really good advice you said something that it’s just really I’ve
23:01 worked with Everett Dean Rex you guys he’s been around for 31 years with me and he’s retiring and he works with
23:07 big corporations so he’s Todd fits a really great way for me to have somebody who comes exact same
23:13 background but they both came from the examiner’s office so they get it better than anybody else it’s
23:19 getting a mortgage with somebody who’s done mortgage brokering for 22 years versus the girl who just started out they know
23:25 what’s going to work they know it’s going to fly so I think that’s what’s really cool when you’re looking for an examiner but then we said qualifying
23:32 Financial attorneys yes I’m sorry well and I think that it we discovered that it was really helpful
23:39 to work in this space after hearing from so many different clients independent inventors working with Todd
23:46 that that had never understood the process before they started working with him he was able to explain it he was
23:52 able to explain every step whereas they had worked with other you know companies or other attorneys and just had no idea
24:00 what they were paying before and really having Todd explain it from start to finish because of his you know former
24:07 time at the USPTO as an examiner has just made all the difference and that’s really it’s really the reason why I am
24:13 doing what I’m doing with inventors club for women that is so cool that is so cool plus you have so much pool
24:19 in bed with this guy all right one last thing I want to touch on really quick and then we’re going to wrap up
24:24 oh please go ask your question actually I know you’re talking about the pattern but it’s all U.S based
24:30 correct so now I’m documenting today doing the provisional pattern does it we have there’s a difference between the
24:36 U.S and international yeah so they have to be considered because I’m seeing that a lot of people get confused with that
24:42 even sometimes you’ll get confused like how that works so when people release the provisional battle shall they also
24:48 do the international at the same time if they think that’s what they’re going to do absolutely I mean if that’s something they especially if they’re going to
24:55 immediately manufacture overseas then they should really file the PCT application and that would give them the
25:01 option to nationalize okay so let me just clarify because I want to make sure I get this for everybody you still file
25:07 your provisional first to give you a year so that way everybody can develop everybody can test everybody can do yeah
25:12 then when you convert it to a utility right you’re gonna pay for the claims and add all that on to get you get real
25:18 protection right and then you’ve got a year to go International correct correct
25:23 you could do both in the beginning you can actually do both okay you can actually do both from the
25:30 time of filing the provisional I believe okay yes and I have to double check on that so don’t quote me on that but I’m
25:36 almost positive okay and I certainly say that because we try to work on a low risk strategy correct and so if we can
25:43 go through all the provisional and know what we’ve built and we’re really solid and we’re really happy okay then when you follow utility you
25:50 can discuss but you do have up to a year to go International so it still gets you guys a little more time so don’t panic
25:55 that you have to have 10 000 plus to go International all at once we can piece this out for you right and then I just
26:01 want to finish on one last note you guys there’s something when she was talking about filing fees that are really important
26:06 what happens is that you have the life of the 20-year patent or you stop paying your product your patent becomes
26:12 inactive and once your padded product your patent becomes inactive it’s free to everyone and so you did all that and
26:19 did all the work spent all the money and did everything and you lost the asset you have so it’s it’s equivalent to like
26:25 you said with real estate when you and I talked before if you don’t pay your taxes on your house three years somebody
26:31 can come take your house based on your tax payment correct so so this asset is gone and so I only stress that because I
26:38 probably have never really talked to somebody for before about those fees but they’re really important and I forgot to
26:45 make sure that we really do that and there are there are certain you know instances where it happens where the the
26:51 inventor does not have communication with their attorney if they’re working with an invent company or something
26:56 along those lines and and in many respects they’re actually going to get a
27:01 they’re going to get the design patent because it’s cheaper for that company to get them the design patent than they would the Utility Patent but
27:08 the basis for me saying that is just that there’s never any communication between the patent attorney and the
27:14 client so sometimes horror stories I only bring
27:19 it up because you should always always know who your patent attorney is I mean if you are working with one of these
27:25 companies sometimes they close up shop you think you have a patent on file the event company May close that shop and
27:31 then you have absolutely no idea so really at the end of the at the end of the day this is your product this is
27:37 your intellectual property don’t ever let anyone else take control of it nice good advice good advice all right you
27:44 guys we as we always do we’re going to end with the tip of the day give us a great tip yeah yeah for me I want to go back to
27:49 something the tip you really touched on really important earlier right it’s really knowing you know is this
27:55 intellectual property public knowledge now or is it still trade secret do I
28:00 still to be careful with it so really understanding what you have ideally you’re working with an attorney to
28:05 understand what you can disclose or not but there are definitely times where you’re going to want to be able to talk about it if you’re marketing it if
28:11 you’re talking your product developer right so I would say know what you have and know what you can disclose perfect I’ll go with that one is like when you
28:18 work with you especially working with the product developer right make sure you give them all
28:24 the information you have if you have invented it and give him and make sure he’s working with that information otherwise
28:30 he’s going to invent something that’s not going to meet the requirement or specifications you have created
28:36 and there really should be a relationship between the engineer and the IP attorney it does there really
28:42 should be because that conversation needs to be open at all times I agree that’s and you guys that that truly
28:49 increases success so I totally agree at that my tip is that understand
28:54 understand what you’re doing get to know what your claims are going to be but I love the provisional patent I just I think
29:01 it’s a very simple stepping stone it’s an inexpensive way I don’t have a problem with you doing it yourself if
29:07 you’re still knowing I like that you have a relationship with the guy who’s going to be there because you could call her husband Todd and you
29:15 can tell them look I’m bootstrapping I need some help will you help me guide me and he’ll let you buy a two thousand
29:21 dollar patent and then he’ll make sure that your quality is amazing so I say utilize your my tip is utilize a
29:27 provisional patent to give yourself some time because products you start and you go oh my God
29:33 it’s been a year where people go oh my God it’s been eight years so that’s my advice that’s my tip and your tip yeah
29:39 my tip would be if you’re looking for funding which almost everyone is if they’re moving forward
29:45 you know past licensing or not doing licensing is to absolutely get intellectual property because
29:51 otherwise you just won’t get the funding I’ve seen it happen I sat through
29:57 Angel you know pitch all sorts of events like that and the guy who
30:04 literally made a million dollars for the year had no intellectual property and that was the only guy that didn’t get
30:10 funding wow and he even made income yeah he made it income but he didn’t have
30:16 enough he said he couldn’t find a way he said he couldn’t find a way to get the patent so if your attorney says there’s
30:23 no way call Todd go to somebody else and trademarks are also a thing I know
30:30 we’ll save that for another conversation but if you are moving forward with a product really need to consider with the company
30:36 rather you really need to consider a trademark as well and it’s an asset but we will to hit it on another side yes
30:42 guys thank you everyone thank you Katie so much you are so freakin talented we should bring you and Todd back if
30:48 he’ll do that with us yeah and I promise everyone when we figure out technology and we can do it we’d love to take calls
30:54 and we’ll be able to do more interviews and things like that so thanks again you guys and please give us those positive
31:01 Stories We are looking for like your tip last week really helped and I saved money or whatever you can give us give
31:08 us some really really positive feedback thanks for coming bye guys we’ll see you guys next week